Dai Qing discusses her upcoming release, “Notes on History,” an expose of the CCP’s lies.

Dai Qing, a famous Chinese journalist who has been away from the public eye for more than 20 years, recently gave an exclusive interview to our station in Chiang Mai, Thailand. In addition to reviewing her experiences during the 1989 student movement, she also talked about her upcoming new book “Notes on History,” which sets out to question the ins and outs of some key events in the history of the Communist Party of China and to “expose their lies.”

Reporter: Qianlang | Editor-in-charge: Chen Meihua, Xu Shuting, Jiayuan | Web Editor: Ruizhe

Published by Radio Free Asia on September 9, 2024

Reporter: “You recently completed the 35th anniversary edition of Deng Xiaoping in 1989 and are writing a new book, Notes on History. Could you please introduce this book?”

Dai Qing: “I have reached this age. I should gradually withdraw from this society and do what I can. For example, they asked me to write about Deng Xiaoping in 1989. This is a big thing, and it should not be my responsibility. But no one took it on, so I took it on. I called it an unfinished draft. All my information is limited, but my questioning of history is endless. I have so many questions to ask, so this book will continue to be left to you, the descendants, as an unfinished draft, and it will be completed bit by bit. I am now writing a history-questioning note. This is also the topic my editor gave me, that is, if you think there is any question, just ask it, and then try to find a way to see if you can find the answer.”

Reporter: “What questions will you ask in your Notes on History?”

Dai Qing: “For example, Pan Hannian (a CCP agent who served as the mayor of Shanghai and was later labeled a counter-revolutionary and imprisoned until death). Pan Hannian was so smart that he would take the materials to Chen Yi just because Chairman Mao said something, and then it was established. How could it be established that Rao Shushi, Yang Fan, and Pan Hannian were counter-revolutionaries? Is that your story? You are lying to me. What is particularly interesting is Yin Qi, the author of the book about Pan Hannian. Yin Qi was given the topic and materials by the Ministry of Public Security. Then I went to Yin Qi and asked him questions one by one. I took out the book written by Deng Xiaoping in 1989 and said I was giving it to him. When he saw the book, he grabbed it and went back to his room and hid it. Then I asked him questions, but he didn’t answer any of them. I asked him if Mao (Mao Zedong) said that at the closing meeting? Where was Pan Hannian on the night of the 31st when the closed meeting was held? Could he find Chen Yi the next day? Chen Yi had everything to do the next day! On the third day… Then I asked him, but he didn’t answer any of the questions. What happened in the end? Here’s what I’m going to tell you. Don’t publish it, I can tell you…”

Dai Qing asks about history: Why are there four versions of images of China’s founding ceremony?

Dai Qing: “There are four versions of the National Day ceremony. The first version describes the situation at that time. The second version does not include Gao Gang. The third version does not include Liu Shaoqi. The fourth version does not include Lin Boqu. Why is Lin Boqu not included? It turns out that when Mao Zedong was in Hangzhou in 1954, he lived there. Jiang Qing received an anonymous letter. This anonymous letter was written by Lin Boqu’s wife, Zhu Ming. Zhu Ming wrote this anonymous letter. Later, this case was called Case No. 18. Ke Qingshi and Luo Ruiqing were in charge. All the provincial party secretaries and police chiefs worked hard for many years, but they could not solve the case. So they asked who wrote it. Jiang Qing asked who wrote it? Yang Fan, right? Who wrote it? So many people were arrested, but the case could not be solved. Then, Lin Boqu died, and the story he told us was that Zhu Ming wrote a report to the central government. When Yang Shangkun saw it, he thought, isn’t this the same handwriting? Isn’t it the anonymous letter? So he came to question him. Zhu Ming said she did it. The next day she committed suicide, and the case was closed. Do you believe it? This story. Zhu Ming’s anonymous letter was sent to Hangzhou and to Jiang Qing. It said that Wang Fang and Luo Ruiqing could not solve the case, and even I could solve it. This is called the Notes on Inquiry into History, a very good Notes on Inquiry into History. This is what I want to tell you about, the little I know. They want to tell lies to deceive us all. I will reveal as much as I know.”

Dai Qing: The pain of being a journalist is being followed by the police all the time

Reporter: “In China, when journalists write, there are actually many things they know and want to write about but cannot. This is a very painful thing for journalists. What is your deepest feeling?”

Dai Qing: “I don’t suffer. My suffering is that the police always follow me, but I never compromise on my own work. I didn’t tell you because I don’t know. I will never say that I know someone’s story one day, and I will never play with that.”

Reporter: “When you came out, did the police tell you that you couldn’t accept interviews and what not, and also made a lot of demands?”

Dai Qing: “It’s not just me coming out this time, but for all these years, I was able to do so because you might not be here at that time. I was in 2023, and Wang Xiaojia (my daughter) was 55 years old in 2023, so she retired on her birthday. Once she retired, I had so many friends and relatives in the United States, including brothers, sisters, nephews, nieces, and so on. Because I felt that I was in the late stage of my life, I wanted to go around and see them, and the police actually let me out. Then I made an agreement with them that I would not accept interviews first, and second, I would not participate in intense social activities, so they let me out. Then I went to various universities, and everyone wanted to chat with me. Don’t you have a so-called closed door meeting in the United States? It was all closed-door meetings. All participants were not allowed to record videos, use mobile phones, or record audio, and no one was allowed to make a fuss. No one was making a fuss, so it was like I had nothing to do. I came back again, to Hong Kong and then to Beijing, and the police were very happy! They thought I fulfilled this promise, and I did, but they didn’t say I couldn’t attend a closed-door meeting, etc. Now the police are very clear in their minds. Their boss came to see me, to our house, and asked me if I had any other requests for them, and what I could ask. I said I had one request, very simple, and asked them if I could tell you what I had done wrong since the 1980s. What was wrong with them treating me like this today? They said we didn’t do any research, and they knew it very well.”

Reporter: “Can you tell us about your physical condition? After coming here, do you feel any discomfort compared to Beijing?”

Dai Qing: “Beijing’s smog is actually caused by coal, gasoline, and various large industries and factories burning garbage. It has such a dense population, so the composition of its smog is very complex, and there are special things like sulfur, etc. As for Chiang Mai, you look at its population density and their lifestyle, so they burn straw, which is carbon. So, you can smell smoke. Of course, when we first came, we said, why do you burn straw? You are developing, so you should not use soil as building materials, but straw boards.”

I will still learn about China but I hope to spend the rest of my life in ease

Reporter: “Do you often pay attention to the domestic situation and developments in the economic, cultural and political aspects?”

Dai Qing: “I don’t care. In principle, what you call care means that I want to know what’s going on. For example, the Third Plenary Session of the 18th CPC Central Committee has been delayed for so long, but it has sent out a message about how the private economy and the state-owned economy should be treated. I will understand these things, but I will never, for example, go to the front line again and point them out and criticize you. I will never do that. I know that many young people, many people in this position, are doing these things. I just stick to my own role, do what I can, and spend the rest of my life very easily.”

Read the original version of this article at the publisher’s website here.

For Part I of this interview, see here.